Jesus: The Hero With a Thousand Faces

[rbbailey]

Oh, my, I started this thread and realized that I hardly have the time to dedicate even an opening monologue to it... Well, put it this way: If you know what the title refers to, you may have a lot to say about this idea -- or you may think it's ridiculous.

While all of human history, from Gilgamesh to the Greek Heros to Luke Skywalker, are reflections of the pattern of the Hero's Journey; they were all of them deceived, for there was another -- Jesus is the one true Hero, and his journey is the ultimate boon, his blood the ultimate elixir; his decent is was the ultimate heist -- what others failed to do, or simply had to attempt within the microcosms of their own points in history, Jesus actually accomplished.

I'll be back to comment or to reply to anyone who posts.

[Josh]

Hero with a thousand faces- is that a reference to the thought of Joseph Campbell?

And are you saying, as Lewis did, that Jesus was the universal myth became fact?

Oh, and I like the Galadriel quote.

[rbbailey]

Yes. I've been familiar with Campbell for some time, but only as an interesting person to listen to talk on old TV documentaries. But I've only recently read his book. It was interesting, but the overall impression I got from it was on of validation for what I've observed.

I had no idea that Lewis also talked about this. But I do remember that Lewis said something like all myth has a little bit of truth in it, and that this is one of the reasons he began to take the Bible seriously.

But let me take this a bit further -- I believe the Greek Heroes and other mythical heroes to be as real as anything else, just that they were not able to complete the job -- they were not blameless, they were not ever actually killed in their journey, and if they were, they were not able to return victorious. The pattern, like many other things, is a natural pattern in history, mythology, and human nature because it attempts to fulfill one of the laws of the universe.

They are just like all the sacrifices made in the temple -- real sacrifices -- but Jesus was the REAL sacrifice, the one that actually did the job all the others were meant to do. Heracules was a band-aid. Jesus was the cure.

[Josh]

I

believe the Greek Heroes and other mythical heroes to be as real as anything else

You believe in a literal Hercules?

[rbbailey]

It's hard to say. I mean... no, but... why not? Not that he descended into the underworld to battle the hounds of hell. But hey, even the Bible says there were, "mighty heroes of old, the famous men." Achilles? Yeah. Heracules as a man shrouded in myth as a way of telling scary bed-time stories? Yeah.

If my theory of evolution, spirituality, Jesus as the real Hero, the scientific reality of what we call the spirit world, etc, etc,... are to hold water. Then it stands to reason that the creation myths, the flood myths, the hero myths are all based on reality and the need to fulfill, and play out the -- as Lewis puts it, the Deeper Magic from before the dawn of time -- patterns embedded in our psyche through either our history, our spirituality, our DNA, our status as fallen beings made in the image of God, or... all of the above.

I suppose I could be writing a whole bunch of jibberish, however. Which is why this is all a big hobby of mine, where as the real core of the matter is always Jesus.

Have you read the account of Noah's flood in the 11th tablet of the Epic of Gilgamesh? Yet another example of knowledge hitting the mark, but missing the point. Most people would say this account is what the Bible based it's account on simply due to the fact that the Biblical account seems to have been written after the various Gilgamesh accounts. But what does that have to do with it? Nothing! The point is not which one was written down first, the point is that it happened. The Gilgamesh account, being one coming from the same region as the Noah account, is very closely aligned with the Biblical account. I would suspect that the further afield you go (geographically speaking) from the epicenter, you will find fewer and fewer similarities as the oral passing down of the story got further and further from the way it actually happened. Gilgamesh's flood and Noah's flood are very closely related because they were written down, not passed on orally, so the variations and warping of the story were kept to a minimum.

Do we not believe in Goliath? Do we not believe that Sampson was fantastic in his strength and abilities? Do we not believe in the oracle abilities of the prophets? What about the three kings who read the stars to gain wisdom and were told of the birth of the Christ Child? And why does the Bible warn against witchcraft and false gods and the arts of the astrologers if they are only old wives tales and myths? Why? Because there is power in those things. Dark power.

The Greeks seem to have had it all figured out, in a soap opera sort of way, but again -- they hit the mark, but missed the point.

Mr. Robinson said it like this: "God is the only true humanist, all others are fading into blackness."

All these other belief systems, all the other gods, heroes, oracles, myths, histories, blood sacrifices, they are all attempting to do the same thing! They have hit the mark, they know what it is that has to happen to fulfill the law, but they have missed the point.

Jesus is the point.

[Josh]

It's hard to say. I mean... no, but... why not? Not that he descended into the underworld to battle the hounds of hell. But hey, even the Bible says there were, "mighty heroes of old, the famous men." Achilles? Yeah. Heracules as a man shrouded in myth as a way of telling scary bed-time stories? Yeah.

OK. I see most myths as containing an historical kernel if that's what you're saying.

Then it stands to reason that the creation myths, the flood myths, the hero myths are all based on reality and the need to fulfill, and play out the -- as Lewis puts it, the Deeper Magic from before the dawn of time -- patterns embedded in our psyche through either our history, our spirituality, our DNA, our status as fallen beings made in the image of God, or... all of the above.

Yes. I see it largely this way.

Have you read the account of Noah's flood in the 11th tablet of the Epic of Gilgamesh? Yet another example of knowledge hitting the mark, but missing the point. Most people would say this account is what the Bible based it's account on simply due to the fact that the Biblical account seems to have been written after the various Gilgamesh accounts. But what does that have to do with it? Nothing! The point is not which one was written down first, the point is that it happened. The Gilgamesh account, being one coming from the same region as the Noah account, is very closely aligned with the Biblical account. I would suspect that the further afield you go (geographically speaking) from the epicenter, you will find fewer and fewer similarities as the oral passing down of the story got further and further from the way it actually happened.

Yes, I've read it, and yes, you're right about how the stories continue to diverge the further they are away from the epicenter.

they hit the mark, but missed the point.

I like this way of putting it.