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Post by Josh on Sept 7, 2009 20:19:46 GMT -8
"I believe that God can and will bring good out of evil, even out of the greatest evil. For that purpose he needs men who make the best use of everything. I believe that God will give us all the strength we need to help us to resist in all times of distress. But he never gives it in advance, lest we should rely on ourselves and not on him alone. A faith such as this should allay all our fears for the future. I believe that even our mistakes and shortcomings are turned to good account, and that it is no harder for God to deal with them than with our supposedly good deeds. I believe that God is no timeless fate, but that he waits for and answers sincere prayers and responsible actions." Dietrich Bonhoeffer, "After Ten Years: A Reckoning made at New Year 1943," in Letters and Papers from Prison, 2 years before his death at the hands of the Nazis  His words ring true even through his own suffering.
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Post by krhagan19 on Sept 9, 2009 10:35:32 GMT -8
Kevin Hates to be a spoil sport. But. . .yeah, that sure worked out good for him. As for the larger world. Here we are, more than sixty years later. Furthermore if we look here genocidewatch.org/ We can see lots of baby holocausts. Yes, there are no massive Berkinaus, with dramatic smoke and ash snow like in Schindler's List. They are still raping and murdering people by the Hundreds of Thousands! Most impressively of all, is that we as a the world community created the "United Nations" which very charter states that it will INTERVENE in ALL cases of GENOCIDE." What has the UN done? They have made up a new phrase "ethnic cleansing" read (genocide of people who don't look like us) and thrown in some token aid, bought a hug amount of popcorn and sat on the sidelines watching. Thus I am not so convinced that God Will Bring Good Out of Evil. If anything it seems like God will nudge evil from BIG SCARY WORDS like GENOCIDE to harmless, almost friendly words like "ethnic cleansing." |
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Post by Josh on Sept 9, 2009 12:41:23 GMT -8
Sounds like you're equating God with the UN  More thoughts later.... |
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Post by Josh on Sept 9, 2009 15:49:00 GMT -8
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.--Paul  Anyway, God manifestly did bring good out of evil in the life of Dietrich Bonhoeffer even though his life was, like Paul, made a "drink offering". Bringing good out of evil doesn't mean everyone is perfectly safe and happy. It means that love was demonstrated in the face of extreme cruelty, truth was spoken in the face of lies, people were brought to God through their brokenness, etc.. |
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Post by krhagan19 on Sept 10, 2009 15:59:22 GMT -8
So then God was bringing out the good, when his good people were burning "heretics" alive and they spoke truth's (such as the Earth is Round, the POPE is NOT the Vicar of Christ etc.)?
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Post by Josh on Sept 10, 2009 17:26:00 GMT -8
Other than the phrase "his good people", yes, I agree. God didn't perpetrate the evil deeds but brought good out of evil and light out of darkness.
Just as the martyrs were the seed of the early church, so too some of the early reformers, through their deaths, brought about some of the most crucial challenges to the decadence and whoredom of the church in the late middle ages.
I mean, just read about the life of John Hus for instance and you'll see how God used his life and death for glory despite his enemies worst intentions.
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