Sin is sin?

[previousk]

Originally posted 11/17/06:

Real quick, unfortunately I couldn't make it to TNT last night cuz I was working late, but I tried to carry on a spiritual/biblical debate in our office with someone. We were having a lil debate and my contention was that scripture tells us that all sin, no matter what form or how extreme, is equally wrong across the board and that they all represent how we are rejecting the lord and God's laws if we commit sin, no matter how mild or harsh by our worldly standards. The only exception being someone who commits sin by completely turning his back on and rejecting the lord as their god. My friend... went on to site a common (and valid) argument saying something like "You really think that if someone kills somebody that it's the same as lying or bearing false witness," or something like that. Any rate, so I don't want to just go in their just to prove him wrong and myself right, but if you could quote me some passages in scripture that could clarify exactly what we're talking about, then I would really appreciate it.

If nothing else, it will help to reaffirm or clarify my existing beliefs on this subject so I understand what the bible "actually states" on this matter. Of course, please express any of your own thoughts on this matter and how you think the lord applies this to us. Thanks a lot...

[Josh]

Originally posted 11/17/06:

Kegan,



Explain to your friend that there are two different relevant truths here (you are tapping into one, and he the other):

1) In one sense, we’ll call this the ONTOLOGICAL IMPACT OF SIN, all sin-- in fact any sin-- even the slightest, has removed us from the possibility of standing in the presence of a Holy God on our own merits. When it comes to approaching a Holy God, all sins are equal.

James 2:10, among other Scripture passages, makes this clear:

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.




(you might also check out Galatians 3:10, Isaiah 64:6 and Matthew 5:19 which teach similar truths)





The basic idea here (which it sounds like you did well to point out) is that God is absolutely Holy and so anything even remotely short of perfection just can’t stand in his presence. Think in terms of a boat tied to a dock. Let’s say the line is cut just ever so slightly. It doesn’t matter how gently or forcefully the cut is made- if the line is severed, it’s severed and the boat is not no longer connected to the dock. That is the effect that any and all sin has in our relationship with God (thus requiring the atoning work of Christ to act on our behalf and re-establish the connection).

Another metaphor might be that this aspect of sin is like a pass/fail course. If you have ANY sin at all, you fail the course (unless you accept Jesus’ perfection on your behalf- 2 Cor. 5:21).





Denying this truth pretty much kills the heart of the gospel message.





2) However, in another sense, sins do differ by degree and severity. There are some sins that are worse than others, not in their ultimate effect on our ontological relationship with God, but in regard to the CONSEQUENTIAL IMPACT OF SIN, namely, that different sins have different consequences, some worse than others. Here are some of the consequences of sin that may vary depending on the sin:

It’s effect on one’s ability to hear God
It’s effect on your relationships with others


It’s effect on your physical well-being
It’s effect on the forming of habits
It’s legal ramifications

Some sins have far worse consequences in all these regards than others. For these reasons, sins like murder and adultery top the list. But, actually, the sin that Jesus got most bent out of shape with was Pride. He was willing to associate with the tax collectors and prostitutes, bringing them a message of forgiveness, but he stayed pretty far away from those whose arrogance didn’t leave room for Him.

There are many Scriptures which bear this idea out in an implied way (if you want me to dig some out, I will)

A metaphor for this aspect of sin would be a course which gets a letter grade- varying degrees of consequence.

Also, Scripture apparently teaches that for those in hell, there will be worse punishments for some than others (see Luke 12:47-48, which seems to bear out in Romans 2:12-16 as well).

Hope that helps!

Josh

[Josh]

Alex responded to this 11/21/06 (somehow didn't make the transfer from the old boards). Here's his response:

I'd say I agree pretty closely with Josh, and I think he described it much more completely than I could have, using cool terms like Ontological and Consequential consequences.


My understanding is that


1) God is holy and sin cannot stand in his presence, regardless of it's severity measured by our personal standard. You might as well ask a shadow to stand in the presence of light. This is closely connected to why there is no salvation but through the grace provided by Jesus.


2) Sin is redeemed but the consequences of it still exist in the physical realm. To be absolved of sin does not mean your obligation to rectify the effects is removed. For example if I break something borrowed forgiveness doesn't remove my duty to repair/replace the item. From this aspect an act that can never be repaired hangs a heavier burden, such as taking a life or destroying a relationship.





If I use the Lord's name inappropriately, how does the consequence in this world compare to the consequence of taking a life? Yet if you stand before God which one would he say was ok? To go a little bit further I personally define the nature of sin not so much by the act but the rebellion against God's will.


To me, an interesting converse is the nature of forgiveness. It extends past what we consider 'minor' sin such as harboring anger, to much more challenging acts such as atrocities committed. The bible continually emphasizes anything can be forgiven by God, and thankfully so as I know there are a world of things I could not, and am glad I will not have to judge. The Son of Sam killer comes to mind, and the authenticity of his salvation.

[Josh]

Originally posted 11/21/06:

Alex, you brought out some different twists and nuances I wasn't thinking of. I love the part about 'borrowed forgivness' and "reparations".

Good point bringing out the fundamental rebellion inherent in sin.

Also, I know that a lot of people ask these kinds of questions because they are thinking of "Ted Bundy" type cases. Although it's impossible in these cases to absolutely judge someone's standing with God, God's grace is shocking and offensive enough to forgive even a mass murderer. That's a tough one to swallow but if it's not true then what hope do any of us have before an absolutely holy God. That's a good way to bring both of these truths together.