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Post by Josh on Apr 22, 2009 21:27:22 GMT -8
Post your comments/ questions/ discussion starters on Hebrews 12:14-19 as replies to this post.
Here's the text in full (NIV):
14Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears. 18You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned." 21The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."
22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
25See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." 27The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.
28Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29for our "God is a consuming fire."
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Post by Josh on Apr 26, 2009 15:30:59 GMT -8
Today's lesson:
Our passage this week starts off with some powerful exhortations. Let’s take a look at some of them specifically and make some practical application to our lives in the here and now.
14Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
I think we need to pause on the “every effort” to be a peace with everyone and to live a holy life.
The NIB commentary says of this passage that the author wants his audience to “be involved in aggressive initiatives toward peace and holiness”. I think that’s a great summation. Think of a current situation in your life that involves conflict with another person. Are you actively engaged in peace-making in that situation? If not, why not? If you decide to submit to this exhortation of Scripture, what would that look like in your particular conflict?
Likewise, would you say that you are actively engaged in living a holy life, i.e. making decisions in your life to act in a way that is congruous with your faith?
Striving after holiness can only be done properly once we have first understood Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf and God’s love for us while we were already sinners. Once we have realized that we cannot in any way earn more love from God, then, and only then are we ready to begin to strive to please God. Are you convinced of God’s love? Are you ready, as a result, to make every effort to be holy as He is holy.
15See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.
What’s hard about these imperatives? (they require us to be involved in the lives of others, even to confront others) What is meant by someone missing the grace of God? Is this someone who is falling into sin or someone who is falling into prideful judgment and self-righteousness? Either way, the next part about a root of “bitterness” seems particularly appropriate to describe what often happens in a community in which some are falling into sin and some are succumbing to self-righteous judgment.
Why should we watch out for these things and actively intervene to stop them?
17Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. He could bring about no change of mind, though he sought the blessing with tears.
The answer is that, as we’ve already discussed in this study, there are very real, dangerous “spiritual brinks” in our journey of faith. There are real casualties, perhaps even points of no return.
18You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; 19to a trumpet blast or to such a voice speaking words that those who heard it begged that no further word be spoken to them, 20because they could not bear what was commanded: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned." 21The sight was so terrifying that Moses said, "I am trembling with fear."
What mountain is being described here? It is Mt. Sinai, the mountain where God powerfully revealed himself to Moses and the ancient Israelites. The focus of God’s initial self-revelation to the people of Israel was God’s holiness versus the sinfulness of humanity. God’s voice was frightening to the Israelites (Exodus 20:19) because it was so otherworldly pure and holy- too perfect for imperfect humans to long tolerate.
The NIB commentary helps explain: “The conditions under which the old covenant [the agreement that God made with Moses and the Israelites] was given were dread, fear, distance, and exclusion”.
The Hebrews were very familiar with this kind of relationship to God. But now the author of this letter wants to remind them that in Christ they now have another experience with God:
22But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Where have these Hebrew followers of Yeshua (Jesus) come? Where do we as followers of Jesus find ourselves? We find ourselves at a different mountain, which the author calls Mt. Zion. Mt. Zion was the mountain of Jerusalem, where king Solomon built the Temple. But this Mt. Zion, this Jerusalem is not the physical city, it is the heavenly city of God, it is the Church! What does heavenly mean here? Does it mean a bodiless, afterlife existence? No. It means the realm of God, here and now, present with us this very moment. You have come, not you will come one day.
Through Jesus and in the assembly of the church, we can now approach the unapproachable God, who we know find to be our Father. He is a judge but we do not fear His judgment. We are accompanied by angels and brothers in sisters in Christ, for now and for eternity. Instead of dread, fear, distance, and exclusion we find, because of Christ, joy, peace, intimacy, and invitation. The author is lifting the veil of our eyes- showing us the spiritual reality behind what we see in the physical realm.
When you gather with other Christians, do you realize how accurate this picture is? When you speak to the Father through Jesus in prayer, can you keep this vision in your mind? Look around the room. You are not sitting by ordinary people in an ordinary room. You are among the “spirits of people being made perfect”, you are in the heavenly city, not built by hands- in the kingdom of our Lord Jesus.
25See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? 26At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens." 27The words "once more" indicate the removing of what can be shaken—that is, created things—so that what cannot be shaken may remain.
This section refers back to a prophecy from the Old Testament:
Haggai 2:1-9 CEV
1-2On the twenty-first day of the next month, the LORD told Haggai the prophet to speak this message to Governor Zerubbabel, High Priest Joshua, and everyone else: 3Does anyone remember how glorious this temple used to be? Now it looks like nothing. 4But cheer up! Because I, the LORD All-Powerful, will be here to help you with the work, 5just as I promised your ancestors when I brought them out of Egypt. Don't worry. My Spirit is right here with you. 6Soon I will again shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land. 7I will shake the nations, and their treasures will be brought here. Then the brightness of my glory will fill this temple. 8All silver and gold belong to me, 9and I promise that this new temple will be more glorious than the first one. I will also bless this city with peace.
What is the new temple that will be more glorious than the first? What is the city that will be blessed with peace? None other, the author of Hebrews tells, than the Body of Christ, His Church, the place where the treasures of the nations will be brought and the presence of God with men will rest.
Do you see why it’s so important for us to pursue peace and holiness? Because we are all part of God’s ongoing project to make all things on earth as they are in heaven.
What was the shaking? The end of the old covenant, the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD? The final judgment of the world by Jesus Christ?
I would say both, and both form the bookends to the age of the Church/ the kingdom of God in which we find ourselves.
28Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe, 29for our "God is a consuming fire."
What does it mean to worship God in His kingdom acceptably, with reverence and awe? Well, I’ll tell you what it doesn’t mean: fixating on our particular preferences in music, worship styles, and study topics from Sunday to Sunday. It’s about focusing more on Who God is, and what we have to bring to Him, than about what we prefer and how we can be comfortable during Church services. It’s about coming to a God who will burn up all that’s impure within us and set our hearts on fire with the passion of a lover.
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Post by yeshuafreak on May 1, 2009 2:53:43 GMT -8
do you want me to poat my theology on hebrews ]here?
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Post by Josh on May 1, 2009 9:42:14 GMT -8
If you want to particularly respond to Hebrews 12:14-29, go right ahead. If you want to post more broadly on Hebrews as a whole, I would go here: Intro to Hebrews/ Hebrews in Context
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Post by yeshuafreak on May 1, 2009 14:31:34 GMT -8
i will do so in both.
shabbat shalom- john
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Post by Josh on Feb 21, 2012 17:55:07 GMT -8
Heb. 12:14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
In above discussion on this verse, we didn't discuss the phrase "see the Lord". What do you think that is referring to?
Seeing (in some way) the Lord in the here and now? Seeing the Lord in the judgment, afterlife, or resurrection?
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shirley
Advanced Member
Advanced Member
Posts: 114
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Post by shirley on Feb 22, 2012 11:47:30 GMT -8
14Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.
When I was reading the passage I took it to mean that people in general will not see God through us if our actions are not reflective of Him - living in peace and being holy. Kind of like the charge to love one another and by this shall all men know you are my disciples. The way we live and the way we act will allow people to "see the Lord".
I think that not doing these things possibly results in the second verse: People missing the grace of God and people becoming bitter and causing "trouble". I recently had a discussion on FB with a friend who considers himself a Christian, but is very bitter about the way he has been treated by churches and people who call themselves Christians. They have not shown him the grace of God and consequently he has become very negative. Whether as an individual or as a church how we treat one another will allow people to see or not see God.
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Post by Josh on Feb 22, 2012 21:47:43 GMT -8
14Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. When I was reading the passage I took it to mean that people in general will not see God through us if our actions are not reflective of Him - living in peace and being holy. Kind of like the charge to love one another and by this shall all men know you are my disciples. The way we live and the way we act will allow people to "see the Lord". I think that not doing these things possibly results in the second verse: People missing the grace of God and people becoming bitter and causing "trouble". I recently had a discussion on FB with a friend who considers himself a Christian, but is very bitter about the way he has been treated by churches and people who call themselves Christians. They have not shown him the grace of God and consequently he has become very negative. Whether as an individual or as a church how we treat one another will allow people to see or not see God. Very cool third way to see this, Shirley (see God in us). Can't believe I didn't see it. Good insight and good connections with the later context.
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