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Post by Josh on Mar 23, 2009 17:19:17 GMT -8
Post your comments, questions, and discussions starters on Hebrews chapter 11 as replies to this thread.
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Post by Josh on Mar 23, 2009 17:25:03 GMT -8
Jumping right in, a couple first impressions/ thoughts... I don't think this is saying we must never doubt, but that if we are going to experience God and his pleasure, we have to go beyond our vision. Secondly, this whole idea of pleasing God. I think it's pretty popular today to emphasize that God loves us no matter what we have done, etc.. Which is true, but it isn't true that He is always pleased with us. There are certain ways we can live that bring pleasure to him, other ways that greive Him. I've discussed this topic elsewhere if anyone's interested discussing that more. Here's a link: www.aletheia.proboards76.com/index.cgi?board=christianliving&action=display&thread=1479
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Post by Josh on Mar 28, 2009 17:32:38 GMT -8
I love how this chapter ends!
32And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37They were stoned[f]; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.
39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
One reason I love this passage is that it stresses that faith is what is important, not the outcome of your story- whether victorious or painful. Passages like this give the lie to all "prosperity doctrines", don't they?
The idea is also summed up in the "He is able/ even if He does not" of Daniel 3:16-18, in the story of the "fiery furnace":
16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego replied to the king, "O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. 17 If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to save us from it, and he will rescue us from your hand, O king. 18 But even if he does not, we want you to know, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up."
In my Bible long ago, in the column next to this passage from Hebrews 11, I wrote:
"What can happen with faith" next to verses 32-35a and "What faith can get you through" next to verses 35b-38
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Post by Josh on Mar 29, 2009 19:29:01 GMT -8
So what did y'all learn at church today?
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Post by Josh on Apr 3, 2009 20:08:28 GMT -8
Apparently you guys went out to brunch again or slept in late (just wanted to use the sleepy smilie) Anyway, a couple of thoughts on Hebrews 11 (too big of a passage to pass up with so little convo) 11By faith Abraham, even though he was past age—and Sarah herself was barren—was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise.I like this verse because it emphasizes, again in contrast to what some "word of faith" folks teach, that faith isn't just a magical force, it is only powerful in so far as it is placed in One who is faithful. In other words, faith isn't faith in faith, it's faith in God. Another thing about Hebrews 11 that I like is how all the heroes of the OT he cites could be said to have, through faith, protected, furthered, and passed on the "seed" that would one day grow to become Jesus.
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