|
Post by Josh on Jan 30, 2008 16:52:43 GMT -8
Last night I started reading "The Shack" by William P. Young (Chris and Denice loaned it to me).
I have to say I've really enjoyed it so far. It's pretty visceral and ominous so far. It's also a bit extra compelling since it's set in the northwest (the gorge, wallowas, etc...) I have a feeling I'm going to love it 'ere I'm done.
I thought it was funny that it started out with a Larry Norman quote after he just came up in the thread below.
I'll keep you all posted.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Jan 30, 2008 19:44:18 GMT -8
It can be tough to read at times, but keep going...it's worth it.
|
|
|
Post by robin on Jan 31, 2008 9:19:02 GMT -8
It's one of the best books I've read, however my wife was unable to finish it. It was a little too emotionally draining for her.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Feb 3, 2008 18:36:53 GMT -8
That was so funny today how many of us have simultaneously discovered (or in my case, been introduced to) this book. I went to order another book on Amazon today and it said that 97% of the people who bought the book I was looking at had also bought "the Shack". Apparently at long last I am swimming deep in the current of postmodern christian lit.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Feb 4, 2008 11:33:43 GMT -8
For anyone interested, there is a 2-part interview with the author here: www.thegodjourney.com/podcast.htmlscroll down to the 01-11-08 and 01-18-08 podcasts. He's a local guy and I think he's open to guest speaking engagments with small groups (hint..hint). He came a spoke at Denice's women's bible study last summer. I've personally never met him, but we know some people that know Paul rather well and I could pursue the possiblity of him being a guest speaker at Aletheia if you'd be interested. Then again, maybe I should wait until after you finished the book before I ask that question.
|
|
|
Post by sarah on Feb 5, 2008 21:16:27 GMT -8
I started reading "The Shack" in September, but put it down part way through. (oddly enough, just when he was meeting "pappa") Well after it came up again at church Sunday, I decided I had best pick it up again. I'm hooked and I was thinking it would be great to have some post read discussions about it. I don't want to give anything away for those who are behind me in the book, or learn to much from those who have gone before! I love Christopher's idea of having the author visit!
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Feb 10, 2008 18:26:17 GMT -8
I found this part fascinating, and I'm going to try not to spoil any major plot stuff here (other than what can be ascertained by reading the back of the book): God (the Father aka Papa ): “Although by nature he is fully God, Jesus is fully human and lives as such. While never losing the innate ability to fly, he chooses moment by moment to remained grounded. That is why his name is Immanuel, God with us…
Jesus is fully human. Although he is fully God, he has never drawn upon his nature as God to do anything. He has only lived out of his relationship with me, living in the very same manner that I desire to be in relationship with every human being. He is just the first to do it to the uttermost—the first to absolutely trust my life within him, the first to believe in my love and my goodness without regard for appearance or consequence.”
Mack: “So, when he healed the blind?”
God (the Father/ Papa): “He did so as a dependent, limited human being trusting in my life and power to be at work within him and through him. Jesus, as a human being, had no power within himself to heal anyone”.
That came as a shock to Mack’s religious system.
God (the Father/ Papa): “Only as he rested in relationship with me—and in our communion—our co-union—could he express my heart and will into any given circumstance. So, when you look at Jesus and it appears that he’s flying, he really is… flying. But what you are actually seeing is me, my life in him. That’s how he lives and acts as a true human, how every human is designed to live… out of my life.”I suppose this passage could be a bit controversial, especially in light of the implication that Jesus has remained in a state of dependence on the Father even after his resurrection, but I find this section causing me to think on Christ's humanity in a fresh and powerful way. This way of thinking helps clarify just how God in Christ could really have had an authentically human life. It also is in line with some important passages about Christ's nature: Philippians 2:5-8 (NASV) 5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.John 8:28-29 28So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."
|
|
|
Post by meghan on Feb 10, 2008 21:24:25 GMT -8
I'll have to read this. My friend's boyfriend grew up knowing the Young family and his kids and is fairly close to their family, so there have been a couple of copies sitting around at the houses I frequent. I should read it sometime.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Feb 10, 2008 23:17:38 GMT -8
I have for several years now held the same view that the author holds here, that Jesus walked the earth the same as we do...completely dependent upon God. This would mean that He did only what the Spirit led Him to do and that He had no inherent power within His humanity to do the works He did...it all came from the Holy Spirit. I don't know about you, but this puts me even the more in awe of Jesus to think that He became as low and utterly dependent upon God as me. He had to walk and live by faith, just as we do. On the other hand, there are some statements that Jesus makes that seem to challenge this view. Like: Matt 26:50-53 51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. 52 But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? NKJV Even though He still needed to pray for them, Jesus seemed confident that He could almost place an order for angels and it would be filled. I'm not sure what to make of that since it was the Father's will that He go to the cross. But then again, I can't say that I've entirely figured out the whole relationship between Jesus the man and God the Father either. It's a mystery to be sure.
|
|
|
Post by sarah on Feb 11, 2008 19:45:28 GMT -8
So I was just talking to Brian earlier today about a section in this book that really struck me in regards to prayer. I think it is from the same chapter you are referencing Josh. The concept of God limiting himself during our prayers so that he hears our thoughts, concerns and requests as if for the first time. Doing this so that he can be in relationship with us and have a conversational nature. I just really liked that part, it speaks so true to the relationship I have with him. I also really liked the cave chapter, but I don't want to jump too far ahead of you are reading it currently.
Oh and we visited some friends today and Katie is reading "The Shack" right now as well. It's everywhere!
Another side note, I love that he lives on Wildcat Mountain Drive, that is right next to my folks place! I try to picture where along the road he lives. Perhaps to stop by and introduce myself...
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Feb 11, 2008 21:56:48 GMT -8
Really? That's so cool. I was picturing it somewhere between Sandy and Welches.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Feb 12, 2008 12:11:44 GMT -8
Say hi to Mack for me if you stop by.
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Feb 14, 2008 20:36:08 GMT -8
Jesus (in The Shack):
"Seriously, my life was not meant to be an example to copy. Being my follower is not trying to "be like Jesus", it means for your independence to be killed."
I have to quibble with this just a tiny bit. Aside from many great Christian exhortations to "imitate Christ", Scripture itself uses this terminology:
See 1 Corinthians 11:1, John 13:15, 3 John 1:11.
I just don't see "emulating Christ" and "killing our independence" as mutually exclusive.
I do, of course, appreciate the point that we can't imitate Christ out of our own independence. Still, I would have preferring this part parsed a bit more carefully.
|
|
|
Post by christopher on Feb 14, 2008 21:16:08 GMT -8
I would agree with you Josh. However...... ....I don't think that was the author's point. He was poking holes in the whole "WWJD" fad. I think he's saying that Jesus wasn't merely an example to follow, but rather He is the "life", the actual life, within us that empowers us to do what He would do and not our independent will. The rest of the paragraph after that statement could almost be seen as a paraphrase of what Jesus said in the last part of John 14 and the beginning of John 15.
|
|
|
Post by sarah on Feb 15, 2008 13:55:51 GMT -8
I think the author is trying to also point out how it is not so much the things that Christ did that we are supposed to immitate, but the way in which he did them. The whole aspect of life lived in surrender to God's will. I love the idea put forth that none of the things Christ did in his ministry on earth were through his own power, but rather through God the Father and the Holy Spirit instructing and empowering him. As he submitted to God's will, he was empowered by God.......
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Feb 15, 2008 17:37:08 GMT -8
Meghan, I just noticed your post. I have a question for anyone in the know-
On the back of the book it mentions that William grew up in the Papua New Guinea highlands among "stone age" tribes. I know several people, including my cousin Patti who was born there, that were missionaries in the same place. Steve K's aunt even wrote a book on their experiences there, and I remember the phrase "stone age tribe" bandied about many a time.
I wonder if I know people who know William? Does anyone know anything else about his time in PNG? I guess I need to perhaps read the interveie Chris posted..
|
|
|
Post by Josh on Feb 15, 2008 17:50:19 GMT -8
He grew up in Western Papua (my friends and family were from Eastern).
Well, we both graduated from Warner Pac. That's cool.
He lives in Gresham and works in Milwaukie.
|
|