Does God ever will that we suffer sickness?

[Josh]

So, a hot debate/ discussion among a few friends and I right now:

Does God ever will that we suffer sickness? I've purposely worded this question this way (with will as a verb) to avoid either of these ways of stating it (which I think are too easy to respond to):

a. Does God ever allow us to suffer sickness?
b. Does God ever desire that we suffer sickness?

Some friends of mine are convinced that God never wills us to suffer sickness- that because of Christ's death we no longer need to be sick (quoting Isaiah which says he was bruised for our iniquities), and that any sickness is the result of either our sin or lack of faith.

Just for the record, their argument was much more complex actually, but stating it like this is a good way to generate conversation I think. If we get some bites, I'll try to flesh out their argument a bit better before offering my perspective. But I'm very curious what you guys think. And this isn't a trap, so don't worry about conjecturing or thinking out loud. I really respect different opinions on this subject, and I think we all have perhaps asked this question before. I also think that there are some Scriptural principles on this issue that we can all get around.

[viorel]

I am just gonna put some verses about healing and sickness to give us a little overview.

Who forgiveth all thine iniquities,who healeth all thy diseases; psalm 103:3

BELOVED, I wish ABOVE all things that thou MAYEST PROSPER AND BE IN HEALTH,EVEN AS THY SOUL PROSPERETH, 3 JOHN 1:2

is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the lord and will be healed , james 5:14

and said, if thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the lord thy god, and wilt do that which is right in his sight and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, i will put none of these diseases upon thee which i have brought upon the egyptians, for i am the lord that health thee, exodus 15:26, deuteronomy 28

"And the Lord will take away from you all sickness, and will afflict you with none of the terrible diseases of Egypt which you have known, but will lay them on all those who hate you." (Deuteronomy 7:15)

And I will take sickness away from the midst of you. No one shall suffer miscarriage or be barren in your land; I will fulfill the number of your days." (Exodus 23:25)

"For I will restore health to you and heal you of your wounds," says the Lord. (Jeremiah 30:17)

""For I am the Lord, I do not change ..." (Malachi 3:6)

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)

He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord." (Luke 4:14,18)

"But when Jesus knew it, He withdrew from there; and great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them all." (Matthew 12:15)

"And when the men of that place recognized Him, they sent out into all that surrounding region, brought to Him all who were sick, and begged Him that they might only touch the hem of His garment. And as many as touched it were made perfectly well." (Matthew 14:35)

who came to hear Him and be healed of their diseases, as well as those who were tormented with unclean spirits. And they were healed. And the whole multitude sought to touch Him, for power went out from Him and healed them all." (Luke 6:17)

Therefore they stayed there a long time, speaking boldly in the Lord, who was bearing witness to the word of His grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands." (Acts 14:3)

For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills." (1 Corinthians 12:4)

[Josh]

Good review of verses, Vio. I'll note however that you didn't include verses on the other side of the fence (ones which state or imply that God might either allow/ will us to undergo sickness at times), or at least possibly hint that way.

Here are some I can think of off the top of my head:

1 Tim. 5:23

23Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

Note that Timothy's had frequent illnesses, which haven't been healed either through prayer, Paul's miraculous giftings, or through his obedience in the cause of Christ.

Gal. 4:12-15

12I plead with you, brothers, become like me, for I became like you. You have done me no wrong. 13As you know, it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. 14Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself. 15What has happened to all your joy? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.

This is a very interesting one, which I think we can reconstruct as follows: Paul had some kind of eye ailment which caused him some kind of change of plans, which God ended up using as a way to advance the kingdom of God to people or in a place that Paul didn't originally intend.

2 Cor. 12:7-10

7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Many (perhaps most) interpreters see this "thorn in the flesh" as a reference to a physical malady- perhaps even the one named above. If that's the case, as I think is likely, then we have a case of God allowing him to suffer for a higher good or realization.

Phil. 4:11-13

11I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Though there is no direct reference to sickness, I included this passage because it conjunction with other things we see happen in Paul's life, I think we see here a healthy Christian attitude to all circumstances- sickness which is not healed included.

Phil. 2:26-27

26For he longs for all of you and is distressed because you heard he was ill. 27Indeed he was ill, and almost died. But God had mercy on him, and not on him only but also on me, to spare me sorrow upon sorrow.

Paul's friend was not spared an illness that almost killed him. And it doesn't appear that the recovery was a miraculous healing, but rather a gradual, natural one (though, of course, still attributable to God).

2 Tim. 4:19-20

19Greet Priscilla and Aquila and the household of Onesiphorus. 20Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus.

Trophimus was not miraculously healed, though all these guys were putting their lives on the line for Christ.

And of course, the book of JOB

The whole point of the book of Job is that sometimes physical suffering comes to the righteous for a higher objective.

I'll hunt down a few more.

1 Cor. 15:22

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Oh, and one more thought- even to the most righteous person alive today, to the one with most faith- death itself (the ultimate illness) is 100% fatal.



I think this is a great idea to put these verses out there before our thoughts.

[Josh]

What follows is some commentary I posted on the Exodus forum last October:

Exodus 23:25-26 "Worship the LORD your God, and his blessing will be on your food and water. I will take away sickness from among you, and none will miscarry or be barren in your land. I will give you a full life span."

I'll be honest. Passages like this in the Old Testament kinda bug me. I'm usually willing to accept hyperbole (and exaggeration to make a point) for what it's worth in Scripture, but this bothers me because I just keep thinking of the people in ancient Israel who were the exceptions to this ideal- those who did worship God but did get sick, or experience the pain of miscarriage, or have a family member die young.

My best understanding of these type of 'ideal promises' passages (and there are a lot- check out Proverbs and you'll see what I mean immediately) is that God is speaking general principles about life:

in general, if you do what is right, you will live a long, healthy, prosperous life

in general, if you do what is evil, you will experience suffering both physically and relationally

And I'd have to say that in general, one could make that case. I guess God here is using exaggeration to drive that point home to the Israelites. Maybe they had a hard time getting the point, or needed HOPE to actually live a righteous life. Maybe God is telling us His ideal will for things, which in His sovreignty and willingness to allow free will, does not always match up with events as they play out.

Just some stabs at what we might make of these passages. No special revelation in this case to 'solve the passage'.

One more thing, though. Philip Yancey, in several of his books, did help me understand the paradox or tension in Scripture between God's ideals and general principles one the one hand, and the exceptions to the rule on the other.

He points out that although there are several books in the Old Testament that emphasize that righteous living leads to health, wealth, and happiness, there are also several which discuss in a devastatingly honest way the exceptions to these principles. Just a few examples are Job, Ecclesiastes, and Habbakkuk, all of which feature God's perspective on the times when things like miscarriages and untimely deaths and bankruptcy befall the righteous (those who are trying to do the right thing).

Perhaps one more thing to glean from these kinds of passages is that is and always has been interested in our physical welfare.

Think for a moment about Chrsitian evangelism and missions: It's a travesty that we have in some cases focused so much on people's 'spiritual' well being that we have neglected their physical well-being. But the reality is that the Bible doesn't make the kind of clean break between "spiritual" and "physical" as we tend to in some Christian circles. God is intensely interesting in our holisitic well-being: physical and non-physical.

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And a week later:

Man, these verses have been haunting me all week. It's just one of those ones that no amount of jumping through loops seems to satisfy thoroughly.

Bad things happen to good people, certainly, as we all have seen.

I've been perusing Ecclesiastes tonight. Man, we need to read that book more often. There's an odd comfort I find in it's sobering truths.

[Josh]

So, since I'm not getting many bites (yet), I'll spill my perspective on the question, which is, of course, open to revision based on consideration of others' input:

I do believe that God often wills that we endure sickness. I don't believe He's the cause of it, but that He allows it in His wisdom, and can redeem it for several different ends-- one primarily purpose which is to help us grow in patience, as well as in humility.

That said, I do think we need to be careful not just to Stoic in responding to whatever circumstances come our way. There's enough about healing in Scripture that leads me to believe we should actively pray for our healing and the physical healing of those around us. Instead of merely acquiesing to everything that comes our way, we have the right, privilege, and I believe the challenge to seek God's deliverance from trials and tribulations. According to Scripture, God can use healings and miracles to glorify Himself.

When I'm sick or suffer some other kind of adversity, I try to ask God in full faith (which, of course, is sometimes there and other times not, and is, also according to my particular measure of faith) to heal me. If that doesn't occur, I ask God to teach me through it. If I don't see anything particular to learn, I ask God to grow my character through it.

When I'm sick or suffer some other adversity, I do use that also as a chance to examine myself and the sin that might be impeding my relationship with God. And I do ask myself if I am truly walking by faith. But I don't beat myself up if I'm not healed. I don't think I need to dig under ever nook and cranny in my life neurotically to uncover some secret sin or to speak magic words of healing or whatever. To me, so far, this appears to be the right response to sickness in the lives of Christians.

As to a 'gift of healing' I'm pretty unsure about what that means. Looking at something like that rationally (and statistically) it almost seems like a meaningless concept (I see people get healed sometimes, but not consistantly or even frequently through one person), although I consent to the teaching of Scripture that some might have that gift. I just need to understand or see that or something, I guess.

[Alex]

admin said:

a. Does God ever allow us to suffer sickness?
b. Does God ever desire that we suffer sickness?

I'm going to have to say yes and yes/no. There are lots of ways to argue one side or the other, but in the end I've read plenty of times - particularly in the old testament but not just - where he uses it as a vehicle for growth in the individual.

In the new testament, among other things he uses sickness as an opportunity for works in people's lives, without which it seems indicated, they would have been lesser people spiritually.

I'm not of the opinion he desires the hardship of sickness for people, any more than he wants sin, hardship, or misery. But it seems he recognizes the reality and presumably the need of it in this world he created - and desires the results possible only through it. What is the impact on a child from only spoiling, after all, in a world that requires so much more in a person's character?

As a wrap-up, I still have a hard time believing that God would prioritize brief physical well-being over the true eternity of the spirit, and what it would take to forge that.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth, yo.